Blues are being attacked on the James and Potomac again

[River Lizard]

Please try to make the meeting May 3, 2011 or write the committee to express your views on the subject.

Here's a email from Bob Greenlee (DGIF)

James and Jeffrey,

Please help get the word out to ODCC members and others you feel may have an interest in the following meeting:

The Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries is planning to host a meeting 6:00 PM Tuesday May 3rd for anglers interested in tidal river blue catfish. The meeting will be held at the VDGIF Charles City County office (3801 John Tyler Memorial Hwy). The goal of the meeting will be to provide information regarding management and policy actions targeting blue catfish which are being considered by the Chesapeake Bay Program Sustainable Goal Implementation Team (GIT). A stated goal of the GIT is to develop (by the end of 2011) a Chesapeake Bay wide policy for blue catfish management - which would likely have ramifications for tidal river recreational blue catfish fisheries in Virginia - particularly the trophy fishery.

During the May 3rd meeting a presentation will be given which will provide anglers with information related to this topic.



For background information, the following is a excerpt from minutes of the GIT's December 2010 meeting:

Fisheries GIT Executive Committee agreed that blue catfish constitute an invasive species that demands further management consideration.

o Fisheries GIT brainstormed several management alternatives (e.g. eradication) but did not reach a consensus on any specific near term

management actions.
o Based on science advice from presenters, eradication of this species was deemed not viable
• Fisheries GIT established and tasked a blue catfish workgroup to develop a “best effort” stock assessment (population estimate) to determine best alternative

policy options to be considered at the next full GIT meeting. This is a step forward in coordinating the development of an agreement/policy between the Bay states on blue catfish.

See the following web links for additional background information.

http://archive.chesapeakebay.net/pub...es_1_11059.pdf

http://www.chesapeakebay.net/team_fi...menuitem=51029

Please contact me if you'd like to discuss, or would like additional information. And, I appreciate your assistance in getting the word out regarding the May 3rd 6:00 PM meeting at VDGIF Charles City County office.

[WVBowhunter]

ttt

[River Lizard]

I talked with Bob today....this is very serious and he suggested that ALL anglers get involved to speak their mind on this issue because GIT is setting their sites on making a decision by Sept. 2011. That decision could be to give control of the Blues back to VMRC and open up the limits to ANY SIZE catfish. This would wipe out our trophy river within a year or two if this happens.
Currently trophy Blues are less than 2% of the Blue population in the James River...opening up that small percentage to the commercial guys would end what we have currently.

This would not only affect anglers but local businesses also, guides, motels, gas stations, stores, bait shops, etc... the list goes on.

If ever there's a time that we need each and everyone of your support it's right now...we need to attempt to stop them (GIT) from changing the regulations on Blues.

Spread the word please.

[River Lizard]

This evening is the meeting for those who wish to learn what we can do to protect our trophy fishery. Please try to attend.

It's at the Charles City DGIF office on Rt. 5 at 6:00 pm

[River Lizard]

Just got back from a very poor showing at the meeting!! If that's a sign as to how important protecting our trophy fishery is, you can pretty much sign off the catfish boards because from what I heard tonight at the meeting, it's going to take ALL of us as individuals to sit down and write/email every member of G.I.T. and explain how much revenue is provided to the local economy from blue catfishing and how it needs to stay where it's at.

Here's one option put up to the G.I.T. to attempt to rid the catfish from ALL waterways connected to the bay. Set the rules that if you catch a catfish it CAN'T be released, YOU MUST KEEP IT, regardless of the size. Think about it, how long will it take before WE would wipe out the trophy cats ourselves? We've got to stop them and the only way is each and every one of us who fish the rivers connected to the bay, to sit down and write a letter to each member of the committee expressing our concern for local economy if they take the trophy Blue Catfish fishery away by changing the current DGIF regs..

[River Lizard]

I was going to post up the Power Point of the meeting last night but it seems that the extension ppt is not allowed on MC.

Any ideas???

[River Lizard]

I'll post everything on my website tonight when I get home.

riverlizard.com

this will include contact information for anyone who is interested in writing a letter to members of GIT. Bob reminded us to focus on economics and really nothing else (no finger pointing to the comms) Just explain how the Blue catfish supplies revenue to local areas and how this revenue will be lost if the regs don't stay the way they are. It's a trophy fishery as it stands, opening up the limits will wipe out the trophy part of it and the revenue for local businesses will decrease.

[madtom]

You said no finger pointing, buts thats what they are doing. They are pointing at the cats saying they are eating everything without any proof.

[River Lizard]

It's what Bob Greenlee asked us not to do when writing a letter to GIT members. It was hard for me to not include something related to them in my letters. Let's see, the Atlantic Sturgeon was almost wiped out...by who? The Comm guys by over-harvesting them. If they're not watched closely, they'd wipe out just about any species that could make them money!

[Vince]

Here is Bobs response to me

RE: blue cat as invasive

Sent By:
"Bob Greenlee (DGIF)" On: May 05/09/11 11:20 AM

To: fishnvince@comcast.net
Cc: "Peyton Robertson" ; "bruce vogt" ; rbeal@asmfc.org
Tidal BCF Status Report_2011.doc (283.3 KB) Download | Remove
Invaisive Catfi...up Tasks_v2.doc (36.8 KB) Download | Remove

Vincent,

I appreciate your concern for, and interest in, recreational tidal river blue catfish fisheries. The points you make regarding the importance of these fisheries are valid.

A lot of information is being placed on message boards and spreading in other media regarding this issue. Therefore, I want to take this opportunity to provide you with a report generated by VDGIF which summarizes the status of recreational tidal blue catfish fisheries and provides summary information related to the issues circulating on the web -- See attached "Tidal Blue Catfish Status Report".

One of the topics of interest circulating among anglers has been recent activities of the Chesapeake Bay Sustainable Fisheries Implementation Team (GIT), as these activities relate to recreational blue catfish fisheries. In December of 2010, after hearing from a panel of scientists regarding blue catfish in tidal rivers, the GIT formed a Workgroup of scientists tasked with examining the science (What is known? What key information is lacking?) and status of blue catfish. Flathead catfish were later added to the Workgroup's task list. The Workgroup was asked to provide the GIT with a full range of management options prior to the GIT's upcoming June 2011 meeting. To give you a better indication of this ongoing process, the most recent tasking document from the GIT to the catfish Workgroup is attached.

In the time since the GIT December 2010 meeting, a draft resolution on blue catfish and flathead catfish has been developed for the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC). An early draft of the ASMFC resolution defines blue catfish and flathead catfish as “invasive”, and states “that all practicable efforts should be made to reduce the population level and range of non-native invasive species” in the Chesapeake Bay watershed – which would, as defined by the draft resolution, include Virginia’s tidal river blue catfish populations. Obviously, this resolution has also been a source of interest to catfish anglers such as yourself

As stated on the GIT's web site (http://www.chesapeakebay.net/team_fi...menuitem=51029) and on the ASMFC website (http://www.asmfc.org/), public and stakeholder involvement is welcomed in these ongoing processes. As these processes move forward, I am sure the GIT and ASMFC will be identifying for stakeholders such as yourself, the most appropriate mechanisms for your involvement.

Thanks again for your interest in tidal river blue catfish fisheries. Feel free to contact me if you'd like to discuss these topics further, or would like additional information related to Virginia's tidal river recreational fisheries.

Bob Greenlee - District Fisheries Biologist
Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries
3801 John Tyler Memorial Highway
Charles City, VA 23030

Phone: 804 829-6715
Fax: 804 829-6788

email: bob.greenlee@dgif.virginia.gov

[BowieKnife357]

Originally Posted by Vince

Here is Bobs response to me

RE: blue cat as invasive

Sent By:
"Bob Greenlee (DGIF)" On: May 05/09/11 11:20 AM

To: fishnvince@comcast.net
Cc: "Peyton Robertson" ; "bruce vogt" ; rbeal@asmfc.org
Tidal BCF Status Report_2011.doc (283.3 KB) Download | Remove
Invaisive Catfi...up Tasks_v2.doc (36.8 KB) Download | Remove

Vincent,

I appreciate your concern for, and interest in, recreational tidal river blue catfish fisheries. The points you make regarding the importance of these fisheries are valid.

A lot of information is being placed on message boards and spreading in other media regarding this issue. Therefore, I want to take this opportunity to provide you with a report generated by VDGIF which summarizes the status of recreational tidal blue catfish fisheries and provides summary information related to the issues circulating on the web -- See attached "Tidal Blue Catfish Status Report".

One of the topics of interest circulating among anglers has been recent activities of the Chesapeake Bay Sustainable Fisheries Implementation Team (GIT), as these activities relate to recreational blue catfish fisheries. In December of 2010, after hearing from a panel of scientists regarding blue catfish in tidal rivers, the GIT formed a Workgroup of scientists tasked with examining the science (What is known? What key information is lacking?) and status of blue catfish. Flathead catfish were later added to the Workgroup's task list. The Workgroup was asked to provide the GIT with a full range of management options prior to the GIT's upcoming June 2011 meeting. To give you a better indication of this ongoing process, the most recent tasking document from the GIT to the catfish Workgroup is attached.

In the time since the GIT December 2010 meeting, a draft resolution on blue catfish and flathead catfish has been developed for the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC). An early draft of the ASMFC resolution defines blue catfish and flathead catfish as “invasive”, and states “that all practicable efforts should be made to reduce the population level and range of non-native invasive species” in the Chesapeake Bay watershed – which would, as defined by the draft resolution, include Virginia’s tidal river blue catfish populations. Obviously, this resolution has also been a source of interest to catfish anglers such as yourself

As stated on the GIT's web site (http://www.chesapeakebay.net/team_fi...menuitem=51029) and on the ASMFC website (http://www.asmfc.org/), public and stakeholder involvement is welcomed in these ongoing processes. As these processes move forward, I am sure the GIT and ASMFC will be identifying for stakeholders such as yourself, the most appropriate mechanisms for your involvement.

Thanks again for your interest in tidal river blue catfish fisheries. Feel free to contact me if you'd like to discuss these topics further, or would like additional information related to Virginia's tidal river recreational fisheries.

Bob Greenlee - District Fisheries Biologist
Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries
3801 John Tyler Memorial Highway
Charles City, VA 23030

Phone: 804 829-6715
Fax: 804 829-6788

email: bob.greenlee@dgif.virginia.gov

Maybe I haven't read this with the same intentions as it was meant to be read, but I'm getting the impression that it took a whole lot of words to say nothing.. I'd be interested in seeing their sustainment models and projections, as well as the accumulated data of any research regarding bluecat and flathead presence in the concerned fisheries. As a general rule I'm all for the removal of non-native species from any environment, but on the other hand I don't wanna see you guys lose your fishery either. Politics and monetary influence have a way of getting in the way of good science, and this may very well be a case of that. Then again I'm half way across the country and am unfamiliar with that waterway, so I don't have much to base a standpoint on. I'd like to help if possible, though.

[jerry9497]

I got from it that "scientist" were assigned to do a study and it is complete and they are recomeneding them as invasive and he not gona argue it. Dosent seem to concerened with it.

[BowieKnife357]

Originally Posted by jerry9497

I got from it that "scientist" were assigned to do a study and it is complete and they are recomeneding them as invasive and he not gona argue it. Dosent seem to concerened with it.

That's what I was saying. "Our scientists 'are doing/have done/are going to do' a study.." Is too vague of an answer to be acceptable. Nine times out of ten when a study on the effects of invasive species on a particular biome is done, it's going to come up unfavorable for the target of the research. My standing question is what the effects are, what native species are suffering, and to what extent. If the foodweb order is being maintained with little detriment to indigenous species then the removal of bluecat and flatheads is ridiculous put against the economic value of their presence. If there's some endangered species on the verge of extinction because of them, then by all means get them out of there. I'd like to see their data.

[jerry9497]

I think there time would be much better spent figuring out how to rid the fish of worms that is widespread rather than try to fight a ghost problem. Seems like last year or year before I sent letters about relaxing restictions on blues. they are under constant attack and in the goverement these days, they lie cheat or steal to get their way.

[Wyliecat]

I've been seeing the finger pointed at the blue catfish in the James River for a while now. It was a matter of times before something happened to curtail their explosive growth in those waters.

Everything from reductions in stripers to blue crabs has been blamed on blue catfish. I honestly have no idea what impact the blue catfish have on these species, but they are obviously getting big and they are feeding on something to do so.

It will come down to who has more political power; crab fishermen or trophy catfish anglers.

Hopefully some quality research can be done that will give some insight into what direction needs to be taken.

[WVBowhunter]

copy of MC2's letter to Bob Greenlee

HC 71 Box 16B
Franklin, WV 26807
11 May, 2011
FlatheadsRus@gmail.com

Mr. Greenlee,

I am writing you as both an avid trophy cat-fisherman and owners of a Catfishing website www.MasterCatters2.com of over 1100 members. I ,like others, have been following been following with great interest the attack on the Chesapeake Bay Tributaries blue catfish in the name of science. As we both know there is both good and bad science on many given subjects both in the past and present and data can be skewed towards desired results. I'm quite sure that labeling the blue catfish as a Invasive and Non-Native species has already doomed a sport and species with out a second look at benefits. Granted our beloved species plays second fiddle to other species such as bass, rock-fish and a few other tidal fish, but none the less, it has a strong following as a sport. I would estimate that 40% of our members have fished the James River for it's prized trophy catfish during the last 5 years as it is an easy drive for 80% of our members (less than 4 hours).

Nearly all of our members place a trip to fish for trophy cats in Va very high on their “bucket list” in the near future. Personally I fish the James River around 20 days a year, and estimate my expenditures are roughly $250 day for gas, food and lodging that is spent from the Shenandoah valley all the way to the Chickahominy River. So my money isn't just felt in the Richmond / Hopewell area – but a vastly larger area in pursuit of my chosen sport. Take that opportunity away and now I will have to head westward to the Ohio river – guess which direction my money will now take. I haven't even included my expenses for tackle and my boat of which is spent at Bass Pro shops, Green tops, and Bottom dwellers tackle – all located in Va. I share my sport with my friends, family and neighbors here in WV and bring them along for a shot at catching a truly remarkable trophy that is now being labeled as a Invasive Non-Native species.

I am a veteran, and I also use these trophy cats to reach out to our disabled and injured vets in the Richmond area. Once or twice a year we take the wounded warriors catfishing for a day on the river. It is a time of healing and normalcy as they leave their units and hospitals just to spend a day on the water catching remarkable trophys and it takes their minds off of their troubles and in many cases the dismal life of prolonged hospital stays. Ask them and those that will follow if eradicating the trophy blue cats will bring a smile and general well being as they have experienced. I have experienced the young man who suffered traumatic brain injury in Iraq – it left him with severe short term memory loss – he was in tears as he left that day for fear he would not remember his accomplishment of catching and releasing a true trophy catfish that day. I have seen the young lady with a large portion of her skull and brain missing who admittedly would never be the same – catch a 60 some pounder without assistance as she fought to over come her disabilities – she wanted to catch that big cat.

You see Mr. Greenlee, as much as many educated men want to take things back to nature before there was man, the cost to man and his spirit cannot be measured. The rewards of our mistakes sometimes have a far greater value than we can measure, both in money and our intentions. So I beg of you not to destroy what God has given you and let your wisdom guide you in making decisions that will keep your fabulous trophy blue cat regulations in place.

Jim Pauley, Doug Goodwin, Earl Phillips
Admin/Owners

[JPritch]

Man, that is a great letter Jim!

I encourage everyone to get their own letters out, to Greenlee, to VMRC, to this Bay Committee, to their legislators. I'm working on mine as well.

[Kurtis]

That is a great letter. I am from Ohio and fishing your tidal rivers is on my list of things to do. I was wondering if you put that letter or one like it on the opening page of this web site and have every one kick their name to it, maybe it would cary more wait. I have traved as far as santee cooper to fish for trofy cats and I am sure other fishermen have done so as well. You might want to post this story and your letter on other sites as well. KEEP UP THE FIGHT.

[River Lizard]

Just to let you know, the letters need to go to the members of GIT and cc Bob Greenlee. You can click on the list of members and get their email address from the following link: http://www.chesapeakebay.net/team_fi...menuitem=51029

Anyway, Bob requested at the meeting that letters be sent directly to GIT and to copy him so they are aware that Bob received the letter and so did every member of the committee/GIT team.
I'm also sending my letter to the following additional people:
VA Governor
Board of Supervisors and the General Manager for Henrico and Chester Counties

Some additional recommendations that I've heard people suggest is motels, bait shops, tournament groups, etc...

[JPritch]

That's a good point. Greenlee is already on our side, it's the others we need to convince.

I'm sure Greentop and other bait shops would have a vested interest in keeping trophy catfishing alive as well.